DONATI CLINIC...Ho Lee She Heist

[Groovemeister]

Totally 101% in agreement there my good man...

No question everyone's tastes in music is different. My point was, and maybe I didn't make it very clearly, is that Virgil performs soley for the drumming world and not the wider music business...

This is just totally my opinion though, and I know there are a lot of Virgil Donati fans here, so I'd hate to upset anyone!

[GrooveYESmam]

yeah it's easy for Vinnie to say that. He's on the best albums of our time. I'm sure he get's a kick out of Virgil's circus ability. But in 50 years, people and musicians will still be listening Vinnie, Gadd, Porc, and Pelt. Even if they don't know it. Virgil is not a practical drummer. He's a drummer for drummers who want to learn how to get fired, and how to waste time developing monkey tools instead music tools. Groove DAMMIT! hahaha. DOn't get me wrong, I respect guys with that discipline, I just don't see what relevency it has to music. It pisses me off when drummers freak out about that, and guy's like Shawn Pelton go over looked for years. Yet they make a much better living playing on tons of CDs. The fact is that most drummers are disfuntional because of guys like Donati and Fam going around the world saying "check THIS out!". What are they saying musically?? Nothing
Gadd is God! hahahaha
Cool board!

[GrooveYESmam]

oh..and let's get this straight. Steve Vai can groove and has a sick knowledge of harmony like some of our classical forfathers. He play's an instrument where that knowledge is key, and he can also play the hell out of the blues. i've seen it. He plays drums, and his pocket is better Virgils.
You can't make a comparison like that using other instrumentalists. Drummers are the only ones who idolize endless amounts of usless chops. Guitarists with tons of chops sound good when the drummer plays a groove behind them. It's still musical,like classical paino music where as, drummers playing all that useless crap is not musical.Just an opinion, but again, the only famous drummer(as far as the general public goes) right now is Amir Thompson.Quest love. The guy doesn't have one chop. So I guess that says it all.Go ask someone that works at NARAS who Virgil is. hahahahahahaha!!

[benrand]

There's one guy who is in a league of his own in the groove spectrum and that's Chris Parker, IMO.

I got a big kick out of watching him play on SNL and he was a hitter.

Some of the stuff he did with Stuff (sorry...) was pretty fantastic.

[GrooveYESmam]

ahhh Benrad Chris Parker! Yes! Now I love this board. A real drummer!

[McKenzie]

Yeah he did say that JDouglee. Vinnie openly say's Virg kicks his tail well what do you know! More of the can he play groove dribble and pocket etc. Good Gosh who cares and yes he can for anyone WHO really knows. Who the heck said drumming rules were about this style or that style this or that, who made the absolute rules of drumming GOD maybe I think not, know one that I know of. As someone eloquently said you have the jazz police, the rock watchdogs or the pop know it all's always lurking around to blast someone because it does not appeal to them or because they cannot do it. I know who said that, by golly the Late great Tony Williams made these comments when he was blasted for exploring other areas and incorporating other styles into his playing and it did not sound and feel like it had before. I will take his standard of opinion over others because he was right not because he was Tony.

It is funny when guy's on this board praise other drummers playing in different styles I do not find myself and many others trashing them for doing what they do and their accomplishments. Even if it is not my bag or I am not moved by it, I still recognize the greatness and achievement in what they do. But lo and behold when Virg or Lang or Marco etc is mentioned time to trash the guy's. Old news

I know, I know some of you do not care to play like Virg or Etc. the old standard reply.

1998 at PAS in Florida and the comments about Virg from the likes of Vinnie and Smith etc. "Those in the know, are very aware of what this guy can do and has done in the drumming world and his command over his instrument and it goes beyond soloing, I guess that is why a number of different musicians(pop, rock, fusion,) have had Virg on their gigs or on their records because he only knows how to solo in extreme fashion. Not!

I remember a guy at PAS(will not mention names to make the guy look bad) who was doing a clinic and he was known for funky/pop stylings, well to say the least he was no Virg or Vinnie or Smith or Horacio others at the show and that was O.K. he did what he did well. But he got into trouble when trying to solo in the context of a song or ,just plain solo he could not do it even if his life depended on it, still O.K. but he started to make comments to justify his inability to solo or venture beyond the basic parameters and was giving the tongue in cheek standard sarcastic comments "Who cares about having great technique and great chops I do not.
I will let others do the crazy stuff I just make music and well I am making the money, hah hah he say's. Fusion stuff is for others yack yack he went on and on trying to build himself up and trashing others in the process it went over like a lead balloon, the crowd for the MOST part was not receptive to his foolish statements especially after his frightful attempt to do something half way creative and exhibiting good technique and chops in any form.

Later that day at a Mangini clinic here is Virg, Terry B. and Steve Smith all hanging and chatting having a real good time and this guy( the sarcastic guy) walks up to try and make conversation and well it did not work and he knew it and they walked off leaving him on his own, a little payback maybe. Even Mangini while he spoke and being much different than Virg and Terry and Steve gave praise to the 3 of them for their achievments even though he plays much different at times and is doing his own thing and incredibly so, it was classy to say the least. And you could see that the respect was reciprocated. Even if Mike's drumming was not their biggest love, they had honor and respect for his achievments. Same way I feel Mike is not musically my favorite but his skills and innovation is commendable. And it does not bother me to say so.

Lastly Don Famu is no VIRG! even though he is a good drummer, bad comparison and the circus comment that was tasteful.

This is not about defending Virg or Lang or Marco
etc they are doing things we could only imagine and their incredible playing and accomplishments is defense enough, but it is about having an open minded, teachable attitude and being able to praise the greatness in others who are obviously great, even if it is not your bag or style or your form of groove or pocket( who made those rules also must of missed that) instead of the narrow minded trashing of others. And judging drumming greatness by how many pop albums you play on means nothing. Who made that rule also.

Peace Dig

[JDouglee]

Originally posted by Groovemeister:
My point was, and maybe I didn't make it very clearly, is that Virgil performs soley for the drumming world and not the wider music business...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, as I stated, I don't play drums yet I enjoy Virgil's style & sense of daring very much. Perhaps Virgil isn't interested in the wider music world as you call it, perhaps he could care less about making tons of $$ with pop artists. It seems he plays what he likes and doesn't compromise. Love it or hate it, ya gotta respect it.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 21, 2004 06:59 PM: Message edited by: JDouglee ]</font>

[McKenzie]

Did anyone ever think that some guy's do not play to see how many browny points they can rack up by playing on alot of pop albums or how much dough they can make, it does not mean squat to some guy's(not that it is wrong for others to do it like the guy I mentioned before at PAS)but copping an attitude about like I am a god and you are not because I play on so and so albums means nothing, and hey by the way some of these guy's like Virg have been down that road and done it,( he played on numerous albums before coming to the states) and they do not care about it too much anymore. Their vision is different.

Alot of guy's could go the other rout and start trashing every guy who plays the straight ahead gig's and does not play innovative, complex fusion or prog and who's interdependence is not up to snuff or their feet are below par or their dexterity and precision is lacking. Alot of Guy's do what they want to do beleive it or not they are not forced to do it. I am sure Virgil and others are not saying CRAP this is the only way I can play and all I know how to do, I am so stuck and limited poor me! They do it cause it drives them like others are driven by the country or pop gig, leave it at that.

Dig

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 22, 2004 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Digital Man ]</font>

[JDouglee]

Yeah, it's like straight ahead jazz snobs or prog geeks...it's just that ONE approach and everything else sucks. You're limiting yourself big time.

I can sit & listen to Jeff Porcaro's deep grooves then turn on Virgil's complex music, then chill with some old Coltrane. And thank God I can enjoy them all!

[Derek DeFields]

I agree. Virgil clearly doesn't want to play pocket stuff so to speak.

I'm not sure about Virgil's long-term prospects. History will tell the story but I think you have to (at least) acknowledge this:

Virgil came onto the scene on the heels of a period where some of the most prolific and able drummers emerged. (E.g. Vinnie, Weckl, Dennis etc) Ability on the instrument (not taste necessarily) was at an all time high.

Virgil basically came on the scene and REMOVED the ceiling for what was possible on the instrument. I think he's taken it to such an extent that at this point, virtually anything seems possible. I cannot stress enough how large an accomplishment that really is in the drumming world. (note I didn't say music world) He essentially moved our art form forward a couple generations BY HIMSELF in regards to what can be done physically. I do not believe there is a comparable human being on any other instrument with the possible exception of Buddy Rich. (who revealed to the world what would now be considered contemporary drumming ability)

I have no comment at all on whether you like him or not, his playing, his music etc etc. I post only to highlight the positive in what he has accomplished which is, in my opinion, undeniable.